http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/ The Fabric of Reality List: The work of David Deutsch Tue, 24 Nov 2009 11:23:39 GMT Kim Jones http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15809 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15809 The education system of every civilised country on the planet is a disgrace. Its quite literally the reason the human race is heading for the S Bend as we say. Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:38:29 GMT Babak Seradjeh http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15808 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15808 ... Yes. And I claim that this is a genuine criticism of the *infallibility* of any theory, though not of their specific claims or explanations. So such Tue, 24 Nov 2009 10:36:55 GMT Bill Taylor http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15807 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15807 Bruno responds: -> Many mathematicians would disagree with Deutsch -> "definition" of computability, They most certainly would! -> but concerning the notion of Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:32:46 GMT Elliot Temple http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15806 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15806 ... When you say a 'self-aware entity', you have in mind various aspects of what that means, A, B, C, D, E, etc. I would bet at least one of those is wrong. Mon, 23 Nov 2009 23:31:16 GMT Charles Goodwin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15805 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15805 ... the schools. Or universities more than K-12. Or how many journals we have to publish in compared to other countries, or how biased they are against taking Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:14:16 GMT Elliot Temple http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15804 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15804 ... Cool. That might, however, be judging the scientific community more than the schools. Or universities more than K-12. Or how many journals we have to Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:14:05 GMT Bruno Marchal http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15803 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15803 ... Yes. ... I don't think so. That is why I insist that the statement "I am conscious" is not a scientific statement. Just an apparent lived constant fact in Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:13:13 GMT Bruno Marchal http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15802 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15802 ... I am not sure. Many mathematicians would disagree with Deutsch "definition" of computability, but concerning the notion of proof or provability, the Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:53:35 GMT Stathis Papaioannou http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15801 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15801 ... The US system is not too bad if judged by real outcomes such as per capita output of scientific papers rather than test scores. -- Stathis Papaioannou Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:53:22 GMT Maurice Guernier http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15800 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15800 ... It seems reasonable to extend fallibilism to any statement in this way, even ones relating to conscious awareness. The statement that a "self-aware entity Mon, 23 Nov 2009 09:51:32 GMT Maurice Guernier http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15799 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15799 ... Yes, but they both get one vote each. ... Agreed. I don't believe any form of democracy, direct or representative, is a silver bullet for protecting Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:54:58 GMT Elliot Temple http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15798 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15798 ... The situation is better than that. These two men who see it differently don't have equally relevant perspectives. What matters is the man whose life it is, Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:51:32 GMT Elliot Temple http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15797 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15797 ... Failing compared to the edu systems of other countries? Is this being judged in the standard way, based on test scores? Wouldn't the American way be to Sun, 22 Nov 2009 21:51:07 GMT Babak Seradjeh http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15796 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15796 ... These paragraphs (and some before) constitute an argument for the statement `"I am conscious" is undoubtable'. You have posited some assumptions (for Sun, 22 Nov 2009 12:55:04 GMT Charles Goodwin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15795 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Fabric-of-Reality/message/15795 Hi Bill, If you can't get FOR from the Uni bookshop, you can get a copy from the Nile online bookshop for $24