http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/ ISCE: Complex-M Mon, 09 Nov 2009 00:22:11 GMT mmbtupr@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2060 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2060 from Lewis L. Smith I beg to differ from Frank. I do believe that complexity has some very definite implications for the social environment, among them >> Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:37:36 GMT Frank Smits (Symphoenix Ltd) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2059 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2059 Frank, I know exactly what you are talking about. The key for me is that complexity science has no direct and immediate application in a social environment. At Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:22:00 GMT toml1777@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2058 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2058 I was looking for articles on the topic of 'Complexity and Absolutes' because I think this is an area that has led to much debate. I came across the following Sun, 08 Nov 2009 22:04:42 GMT Frank http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2057 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2057 I agree. "Successful consultants" is the nub. There are many snake oil consultants out there who invoke Complexity as some sort of magic incantation and try to Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:00:02 GMT Steven E. Wallis http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2056 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2056 Deborah, Yes indeed. To rephrase an old saying... Some people talk about things. Others talk about the belief systems that shape the way we understand things. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:59:06 GMT Steven E. Wallis http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2055 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2055 Lewis, My working definition of truth is, "Valid within a theory (where theory is broadly defined to include such things as mental models)." I think I've Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:59:05 GMT Steven E. Wallis http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2054 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2054 Frank, I'd argue that most successful consultants use more intuition than formal methodologies for interventions that relieve those symptoms (even though the Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:51:25 GMT mmbtupr@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2053 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2053 from Lewis L. Smith When complexity first began to come together as a field, some people dreamed of finding the equivalent of Newton's Laws of Motion. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 14:41:18 GMT mmbtupr@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2052 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2052 from Lewis L. Smith As a pro bono researcher in the discipline of complexity since 1994, I must disagree with the assertion that complexity is "a branch of Sun, 08 Nov 2009 13:43:56 GMT Frank http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2051 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2051 Well to me a layman that seems a good basic description of Chaos and Complexity and those who are minded to apply these tenets to economics, sociology etc Sun, 08 Nov 2009 10:58:37 GMT toml1777@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2050 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2050 Complexity is a branch of mathematics. Traditional mathematics could explain a straight line or a simple curve such as a parabola with an equation. But there Sun, 08 Nov 2009 02:50:51 GMT toml1777@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2049 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2049 Workable to whom? The word 'ethics' comes from the Greek word 'ethos' which means custom or habit. Ethics are what we all agree on to right. A friend of mine Sat, 07 Nov 2009 23:08:54 GMT Frank http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2048 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2048 Yep, I'll go along with that, John. Can we get back so some real discussions on Complexity please. Er like my post "Complexity vs Complicatedness" lol. Plug Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:44:18 GMT mmbtupr@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2047 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2047 from Lewis L. Smith I was person who brought up the subject of the "rapture" movement within Christianity. While I have my personal preferences, I am an Sat, 07 Nov 2009 19:40:57 GMT John - M http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2046 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/ISCE_complex-M/message/2046 Tom, allow me to reply to you mile-long and even longer post at the size of a mouse's tail. "...If you have a workable alternative, then fine. .." I reserve