http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/ Root Cause : State-of-the-Practice Sat, 07 Nov 2009 08:13:29 GMT DR WILLIAM CORCORAN http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7304 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7304 In a fair culture, if you punish a person for a certain behavior or inaction you need to punish all those who set him up for it and all those who tolerated or Fri, 06 Nov 2009 22:32:22 GMT jack.stanford@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7303 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7303 I would advocate putting a person or people on different non safety related job assignments as the investignation and potential prosecution continued. Fri, 06 Nov 2009 20:18:34 GMT Dillard, Tedd A (E S SF RNA FS 11E) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7302 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7302 Bruce, I agree. The who is implied in the what but much better to be clear. In fact it is likely more important to officially answer the who question than any Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:50:06 GMT B Hart http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7301 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7301 (Tried to send earlier, but used wrong sending address for Yahoo subscription.) Tedd, Good points. I will use them. Regarding loss of effectiveness, I believe Fri, 06 Nov 2009 19:29:58 GMT bruce.hart@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7300 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7300 Ted, Two emails ago you had a third point that could/should have been added to your 2 points below. You wrote: Three, I believe fair discipline applied after Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:48:05 GMT Dillard, Tedd A (E S SF RNA FS 11E) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7299 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7299 Bill, That would depend on the circumstances I think. On the one hand you do not want to appear to be biased but if some discipline, is very likely, then Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:45:24 GMT bruce.hart@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7298 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7298 Bill, I concur that normally consequences are more effective when imposed close to the involved behavior. However, that said, it seems to me that there must be Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:34:27 GMT Salot, William http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7297 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7297 Tedd, Well said! Would you advocate putting a person on notice of possible discipline action pending completion of the investigation? Bill Salot Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:24:57 GMT Dillard, Tedd A (E S SF RNA FS 11E) http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7296 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7296 Three points, One, if the discipline is termination it is just as effective whenever it is done. Two, the investigation needs to be done quickly. Three, I Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:18:37 GMT DR WILLIAM CORCORAN http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7295 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7295 Bill Salot,   You are correct.   The longer the consequence is delayed after the behavior the less effect it has.   For feedback to be effective it must be Fri, 06 Nov 2009 18:11:56 GMT Salot, William http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7294 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7294 Bill C and Bruce, On the other hand, disciplining is less effective when it is not done soon after the event that triggered it. Where does that leave us? Bill Fri, 06 Nov 2009 17:46:08 GMT bruce.hart@... http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7293 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7293 Bill, Nice improvement. Has a good flow and is better substantively. Give yourself credit, because I'm going to quote you when I meet our senior management Fri, 06 Nov 2009 15:53:14 GMT DR WILLIAM CORCORAN http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7292 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7292 Bruce,   Thanks.   If I had a chance to say it over I'd say:   "Disciplining people involved in an event before identifying and understanding all the Thu, 05 Nov 2009 20:47:36 GMT mike warner http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7291 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7291 Jack, I am in Fort Worth, Texas.  I am not involved with the medical community.  I am a corporate safety manager for a a large, national retailer, although I Thu, 05 Nov 2009 14:29:34 GMT Van Leuken, Mike http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7290 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/Root_Cause_State_of_the_Practice/message/7290 The thing I’ve found is that when people understand why you are doing what you are doing, such as always conforming patient name & patient procedure, then