http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/ Agile Alliance Functional Testing Tools Tue, 07 May 2013 15:02:04 GMT aslak hellesoy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/2000 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/2000 ... It's a long term goal, so it might not happen for a while - we have a long list of things we want to do :-) ... I think it's suitable in the context of Tue, 07 May 2013 12:55:55 GMT Matt Wynne http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1999 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1999 I'm really enjoying this discussion. If I may correct my now "famous" quotation, I was talking in that presentation about pushing the *how* down the stack. Tue, 07 May 2013 12:37:55 GMT Matt Wynne http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1998 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1998 ... Thanks for writing that Dale. I've been pointing people on my trainings to that article for several years when making this point. cheers, Matt -- Tue, 07 May 2013 10:42:09 GMT Nigel Charman http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1997 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1997 Hi Aslak, ... This sounds great. I look forward to giving it a try. ... Would you expand on why you think this? I find that HTML allows us to generate high Tue, 07 May 2013 05:33:18 GMT Gerard Meszaros http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1996 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1996 ... I'm happy with this so far. ... I think this is where we disagree (maybe). I don't believe we need to push this down into the programming language layer. Mon, 06 May 2013 22:12:37 GMT Markus Gaertner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1995 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1995 I wouldn't call that "push down", but it's more like we're expressing the data more on the user goal level. Seriously, this seems to be mostly what DDD is Mon, 06 May 2013 21:31:34 GMT aslak hellesoy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1994 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1994 ... "push down" is a practice that the Cucumber community has advocated for a while, but it didn't have a catchy name until Matt Wynne gave it a name in the Mon, 06 May 2013 20:58:44 GMT Gerard Meszaros http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1993 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1993 ... The problem with trying to enforce abstraction and collaboration by forcing the non-technical people to use a different language (i.e. cuke vs. java or Mon, 06 May 2013 19:37:36 GMT Dale Emery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1992 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1992 Hi Aslak, ... My sense is that RF doesn't particularly encourage that, but neither does it discourage it. I think the prevalence of incidental details in tests Mon, 06 May 2013 19:26:07 GMT Dale Emery http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1991 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1991 Hi Chieu, ... Yes. Most of the time, it doesn't quite fit my intentions, though my concerns are minor and subtle. In cucumber, to use a data table I have to Mon, 06 May 2013 18:41:46 GMT Markus Gärtner http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1990 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1990 My main critique on RF is that the variety of libraries out there make it look like "I don't need to write code to automate tests", where in fact you start Mon, 06 May 2013 17:44:15 GMT Lisa Crispin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1989 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1989 Another point in RF's favor was their active and extremely helpful developer community. I believe this is true of Cucumber and a number of other tools as well, Mon, 06 May 2013 17:39:22 GMT Lisa Crispin http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1988 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1988 Hi Chieu, We didn't actually include Cucumber in our bake-off, as most folks on our team weren't keen on the Gherkin given/when/then. I think it's a great Mon, 06 May 2013 17:23:30 GMT aslak hellesoy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1987 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1987 ... Chieu, Thanks for clarifying. I haven't used RF myself, but from what I can tell - RF libraries are kind of macro definitions that you can use directly in Mon, 06 May 2013 16:50:03 GMT cbphamjc http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1986 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/aa-ftt/message/1986 Again thanks everyone for the valuable input on your experience. As mentioned in a previous email, I am just starting out with Cucumber so I am still slowly