http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/ Agile Estimating and Planning Sun, 21 Jun 2009 03:08:39 GMT John Goodsen http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/442 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/442 Whew! Glad to be back in sync with ya! Now to go celebrate my birthday! Sent from my iPhone On Jun 20, 2009, at 10:51 PM, Ron Jeffries Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:52:09 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/441 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/441 Hello, John. On Saturday, June 20, 2009, at 10:36:26 PM, you ... Yes, for you. For those on the kanbandev list, on the other hand, it is more. I'm more Sun, 21 Jun 2009 02:36:52 GMT John Goodsen http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/440 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/440 ... I figured so :) ... Yes ... I agree. ... Once again I must have mis-communicated. I get the feeling that I leave an impression that kanban is a process. Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:29:36 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/439 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/439 ... It has to be you. We all know that the written word communicates perfectly unless the reader screws up. ... Yes ... ... Yes. I recommend using real Sun, 21 Jun 2009 01:04:17 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/438 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/438 ... The time spent estimating compared to time spent developing is already small. Kanban may have many advantages but time saved planning is not likely to be a Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:52:40 GMT John Goodsen http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/437 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/437 Hi Ron, Sorry about recent miscommunication. Either I'm not doing a good job of communicating, or you are taking devil's advocate to the point that I'm Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:44:43 GMT John Goodsen http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/436 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/436 Hi Ron, Whenever you talk, I try hard to absorb and understand. Where does this doubt come from? I've been experimenting with kanban for a couple years now Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:22:06 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/435 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/435 ... I doubt whether the time saved on estimating is going to allow kanban teams to surge ahead very substantially. Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com Sun, 21 Jun 2009 00:11:00 GMT John Goodsen http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/434 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/434 ... This is waste that a kanban pull system eliminates. It's easier to get by with that story inside a large corporation, but it is quickly exposed when you Sat, 20 Jun 2009 18:51:49 GMT Eric Fulton http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/433 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/433 In any methodology when given the estimation task I always factor in that details missed will exist and add it to the estimate. Given the product backlog I Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:44:35 GMT Angelo Kastroulis http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/432 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/432 I think we're stuck a little on semantics. When I say "I" i mean "as a member of the team, each one of us must ask ourselves"... What I was trying to Fri, 19 Jun 2009 18:05:36 GMT Mike Cohn http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/431 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/431 Hi Uwe-- I advise teams to do commitment-driven sprint planning. The team selects one item from the product backlog, splits it into tasks and hours, and then Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:43:11 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/430 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/430 ... Why doesn't the Product Owner just answer their questions? Ron Jeffries www.XProgramming.com www.xprogramming.com/blog Know what I pray for? The strength Fri, 19 Jun 2009 16:32:49 GMT Ron Jeffries http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/429 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/429 Hello, Angelo. On Friday, June 19, 2009, at 11:44:06 AM, you ... What do you do with the information as to how much you can get done during a Sprint? And why Fri, 19 Jun 2009 15:45:13 GMT Angelo Kastroulis http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/428 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/agileplanning/message/428 I can understand their frustration, we've all gone through that. First I think the main obstacle I've found is understanding *WHY *we need estimates. It's not