http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/ CMMi Process Improvement Mon, 06 Jul 2009 03:18:01 GMT Jerry Zhu http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15874 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15874 Edward   See my blog why software engineering is immature.   http://ucsoft.blog.com/2009/04/01/why-software-engineering-is-still-in-its-infancy/   Jerry ... Mon, 06 Jul 2009 02:01:08 GMT Jerry Zhu http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15873 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15873 Jeff,   We were talking about CMMI level 5 that is about optimization not CMMI model.   Precise or imprecise is boolean logic...either scientific (objective) Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:03:44 GMT Jeffrey Dalton http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15872 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15872 It seems a bit of a moot point - the CMMI is not an "optimization" model as Jerry seems to believe, but a "maturity" model - and by definition seeks to make Mon, 06 Jul 2009 00:02:26 GMT efwelleraol http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15871 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15871 Jerry, Software Engineering is not immature - the basic fundamentale were laid down in the 60s-80s and codified in whe work Watts Humphrey led at the SEI, Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:58:25 GMT Jerry Zhu http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15870 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15870 Glen,   It is well known and fact(not conjecture) that software engineering is an immature discipline.  Whether an immature discipline can be optimized is Sun, 05 Jul 2009 22:58:19 GMT EDWARD F WELLER III http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15869 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15869 Ditto - I agree with Glen I would ask Jerry the basis for his statements - and background - for instance have you taken the Introduction to CMMI, have you been Sun, 05 Jul 2009 17:24:57 GMT Glen Alleman http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15868 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15868 Jerry, The conjecture that software is a highly immature discipline that cannot be optimized is just that conjecture. You seem to be making conjecture about Sun, 05 Jul 2009 16:08:10 GMT Jerry Zhu http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15867 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15867 Glen,   Probably CMMI ML5 firms are large ones in order to have individual programs/product lines to be appraised.   What about small software consulting Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:46:31 GMT Patrick OToole http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15866 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15866 Winifred, I believe the quote, "You can't manage what you don't measure," is true enough - PROVIDED you give a broad definition to "measure." For example, as Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:14:43 GMT Glen Alleman http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15865 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15865 Ashok, Interesting point of view. I work two programs with CMMI ML 5. It is extremely rare to have a Company have a ML5 appraisal. ML5 is usually reserved for Sun, 05 Jul 2009 01:14:09 GMT Neil Potter http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15864 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15864 Ashok this is more likely level 1 company with "flavor of the day management" The trouble i have with your cartoon and comment is that people will pass it Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:53:17 GMT wihamenezes http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15863 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15863 Hi, Echoing Heather - I too think there is some value in "looking over" existing measures and ensuring that the definitions and use of the measures are Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:52:31 GMT wihamenezes http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15862 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15862 Everyone, Thanks a million for a great and illuminating discussion. It was good to be reminded of the many perspectives. cheers Winifred Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:52:11 GMT Ashok Gunasekaran http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15861 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15861 *Nice Cartoon on typical CMMI L5 Company* -- Regards, Ashok Gunasekaran http://www.ashokgunasekaran.blogspot.com http://www.health-capsule.blogspot.com Sat, 04 Jul 2009 10:51:41 GMT pradeep chellakani http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15860 http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/cmmi_process_improvement/message/15860 Will you be able to tell me the data type and the scale of measurement for Function Point (FP) Software size. Thanking you best regards Pradeep On Fri, 03 Jul