http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/ Richard III Society Forum - Discussion area for 15th 16th century history Mon, 23 Nov 2009 02:59:53 GMT balian1194 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11177 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11177 I have a copy of it and it is superb Mon, 16 Nov 2009 22:20:43 GMT Gilda Felt http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11176 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11176 In case not everyone is aware, the latest DVD from loyaltybindsme.com is now available. It covers the Battle of Wakefield and the building of Sandal's Castles. Fri, 13 Nov 2009 09:45:54 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11175 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11175 Thinking about it, maybe that shouldn't have been the first question. The first thing should have been - if Edward's hadn't had Clarence attainted and Thu, 12 Nov 2009 16:37:34 GMT phaecilia http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11174 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11174 Clarence's judicial murder of Isabel's servant, Ankarette Tywnyho, and John Thursby, proved him unfit to rule anyone, anywhere, IMO. I'm not sure if he Thu, 12 Nov 2009 14:35:54 GMT fayre rose http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11173 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11173 i think edward would have chosen richard over clarence. clarence had a proven record of being a turncoat. yes, that decision could have sparked a civil war. Wed, 11 Nov 2009 19:04:28 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11172 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11172 ... Absolutely! I suppose the first question would be: What instructions would Edward have left in his will? I can't see him having named Clarence as Tue, 10 Nov 2009 18:19:47 GMT fayre rose http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11171 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11171 i think the "hym and them" includes all parties. if clarence had not deserted warwick, margret and son may have succeeded. however, george's betrayal of his Tue, 10 Nov 2009 15:39:43 GMT Annette Carson http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11170 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11170 Marie wrote: And Warkworth? Yes, sorry, Warkworth - I take your point about no other hindsight reference in Warkworth, whether to George Neville or anything Tue, 10 Nov 2009 14:13:23 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11169 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11169 ... And Warkworth? Warkworth's chronicle was certainly put together in the early 1480s. It is mostly just Caxton's printed edition of the Brut (eds 1480 & Mon, 09 Nov 2009 13:33:05 GMT Annette Carson http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11168 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11168 Yes, true, the only support for the latter theory is the charge that Edward IV brought against Clarence. Annette ... From: mariewalsh2003 To: Mon, 09 Nov 2009 09:01:10 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11167 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11167 Ah, yes, now Lander's not denying that Warwick was using the illegitimacy claim in 1469 in order to put Clarence forward for the ththrone. His argument is that Mon, 09 Nov 2009 06:50:57 GMT Annette Carson http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11166 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11166 I've found the reference now, which cannot of course be counted as evidence, but it seems indicative of what was going on: There's a reference in Calmette et Sun, 08 Nov 2009 15:14:47 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11165 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11165 ... Could you possibly, Annette? I probably wouldn't have thought that much of it when I read it in your book as I have only recently read Lander's article. Sun, 08 Nov 2009 12:17:20 GMT Annette Carson http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11164 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11164 Marie - I believe that there was a contemporaneous report by a foreign ambassador (?French) about Clarence being adopted as heir at the readeption - I thought Sun, 08 Nov 2009 09:05:48 GMT mariewalsh2003 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11163 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/richardiiisocietyforum/message/11163 ... Hi Pamela, The golden rule was that a woman should not lose status by marriage - she might gain it but could not lose it. Jacquetta continued to be Duchess