http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/ Test-driven Development Mon, 06 May 2013 18:33:45 GMT Charlie Poole http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35472 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35472 Hi All, I'm announcing the release of NUnitLite 0.9 today. In case you were not aware, NUnitLite has surprised me by attracting a lot of users who previously Mon, 06 May 2013 14:39:57 GMT Al Chou http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35471 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35471 I came up with an easy way to generate Mikado diagrams programmatically using Ruby-Graphviz.  One of the co-authors of the book (Ola) liked it.  Here's an Mon, 06 May 2013 07:26:36 GMT Matteo Vaccari http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35470 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35470 ... I for one think it's a very good book on its own merit. There are other good books on TDD, and GOOS is certainly one of the best, but I think it's better Mon, 06 May 2013 02:10:45 GMT John Carter http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35469 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35469 Test Driven Development by Example (Kent Beck) + 4 GOOS + 2 Refactoring + 2 Working Effectively With Legacy Code + 2 Clean Code + 1 The Mikado Method Mon, 06 May 2013 01:34:18 GMT John Carter http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35468 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35468 ... Now THAT is a Very Good Find! An Excellent Book! Thanks, just what I was hoping for! -- ... This email, including any attachments, is only for the intended Fri, 03 May 2013 20:29:09 GMT Adam Sroka http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35467 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35467 It could, but it doesn't necessarily. The only time I have ever seen it become a problem is when someone was doing something they shouldn't irrespective of the Fri, 03 May 2013 20:14:29 GMT George Dinwiddie http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35466 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35466 Adam, ... Thanks for the admonition. I was just trying to explain how monkey-patching causes more interference between tests than mocks do. - George ... -- ... Fri, 03 May 2013 17:50:34 GMT Adam Sroka http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35465 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35465 Perl was my first professional language. I am not afraid of monkey patching. A hammer is a useful tool. Please refrain from hitting yourself with it. ... Fri, 03 May 2013 00:03:02 GMT George Dinwiddie http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35464 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35464 Adam, ... No, with monkey patching you're often messing up *library code* to the detriment of other tests. ... Maybe. Or maybe your monkey patching makes other Thu, 02 May 2013 23:15:36 GMT Adam Sroka http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35463 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35463 Hi George: That makes sense, but you can do the same thing to yourself with mocks. That's why you have to make sure you write microtests for both sides of the Thu, 02 May 2013 14:46:46 GMT George Dinwiddie http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35462 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35462 Adam, ... Monkey patching is a common method to create testing seams, even by people who would not use monkey patching in the deliverable system code. It's a Thu, 02 May 2013 08:57:29 GMT Adrian Howard http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35461 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35461 ... Well - the same thing kind-of applies in perl. Default initialisation and left over correct values can lead to the wrong behaviour in Perl too. I'm sure Thu, 02 May 2013 03:25:25 GMT Adam Sroka http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35460 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35460 Maybe I'm just dense, but: what is it about this that is particular to TDD? Seems to me that monkey patching without tests is *fuck all* more dangerous than Thu, 02 May 2013 03:12:31 GMT John Roth http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35459 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35459 ... Snort. This is a continuing issue for the Python developers as well. John Roth [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Thu, 02 May 2013 01:03:56 GMT George Dinwiddie http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35458 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/testdrivendevelopment/message/35458 Dennis, ... You should pair that with The Mikado Method (mikadomethod.org) - George -- ... * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com